A conversation with Christopher Bonura (Mount St. Mary's University) about the apocalyptic tradition of identifying the Four Kingdoms prophesied in the Book of Daniel. Which one was the Roman empire? The fourth, scheduled to fall with the others, or something that came afterward (a tradition sometimes called imperial eschatology)? Among other topics we discuss Eusebios of Caesarea and the reign of Herakleios as possible turning points in this tradition. Christopher has published a monograph on one of the most important of these texts: A Prophecy of Empire: The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius from Late Antique Mesopotamia to the Global Medieval Imagination (University of California Press 2025), though our discussion focuses more on two articles, 'Eusebius of Caesarea, the Roman Empire, and the Fulfillment of Biblical Prophecy,' Church History 90 (2021) 509-536; and 'Eschatology and Apocalypticism in the Age of Heraclius,' forthcoming.