A conversation with Amy Kaufman and Paul Sturtevant about their book The Devil's Historians: How Modern Extremists Abuse the Medieval Past (University of Toronto Press 2020). Extremists groups such as white supremacists and ISIS use the Middle Ages to advocate for specific racial, religious, or gender orders, and promote violence as a means for attaining them. We talk about the contours and goals of these groups, their conflicted views of modernity and the Middle Ages, how Byzantium does or does not fit into this picture, and generally go off on many tangents. Also check out their complementary conversation with Danièle Cybulskie on The Medieval Podcast.